Interview with

Founder & Teacher, desiringGod.org

Audio Transcript

We are back, after a week-long break from the podcast. And we have a full week ahead, Pastor John, so let’s dive into the river of emails that never stops flowing.

Austin, a listener in Atlanta, writes in: “Hello Pastor John! When asked about the significance of the cross, most Christians can give the Sunday school answer that ‘Jesus died to save us from sin.’ While this is a beautiful, true, and profound truth, it can sometimes appear simple and one-dimensional. How would you encourage me to have an enlarged view of the cross? How can I approach God’s Word and live in a way that continually broadens my understanding and love for that pivotal moment in history?”

I love this question because, right off my front burner, the answer to the question happened to be in worship yesterday. But let me say something else before I say that. Austin is clearly right. He has got his handle on the right way to live. He wants to go deeper and wider in the cross of Christ than he has ever gone before. And he wants that to be continually happening. So, let me give three different kind of answers to the question. How can we approach God’s Word, how can we approach life, so that this deepening, widening, heightening of our experience of, understanding of, love for the cross happens?

1) Linger over and meditate regularly on Galatians 6:14 or other texts like it. It goes like this: “Far be it from me to boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ.” Now that is an astonishing statement. Everything in the world has died to us and we have died to it, it says at the end of the verse. But this statement, “far be it from [us] to boast,” — or glory or rejoice — “except in the cross” is really wildly exaggerated, it seems, because the Bible talks about exulting and rejoicing in and boasting in other things like exulting “in hope of the glory of God” (Romans 5:2). Exult in your tribulations (Romans 5:3). Exult and boast in your “weaknesses” (2 Corinthians 12:9). Exult in other believers (1 Thessalonians 2:19). So, what does he mean when he says always boast in the cross? God forbid that I should boast except in the cross, which I take it to mean, we should always boast in the cross. If there is any boasting, it should be in the cross. So what in the world does that mean?

“The glory of the cross is ever present underneath as the foundation for every good you ever experience.”

I think it means this: all other boasting, which is right. He has got other boastings that he commends in the New Testament. All other boasting should also be a boasting in the cross. All exultation in anything should be an exultation in the cross. If you exult in the hope of glory, you should be exulting in the cross of Christ. If you exult in tribulation, you should be exulting in the cross of Christ. If you exult in your weaknesses or in the people of God, in that very exulting you should be exulting in the cross of Christ. Well, what in the world does that mean? How do you do that? In other words, I am saying: If you boast in anything at all, it should be a boasting in the cross also. Why? How? What in the world?

It is true. Think of it this way: Christians, all Christians, are sinners and do not deserve anything but judgment, which means that daily, hour by hour, we are receiving hundreds of good things that we don’t deserve and bad things that happen to us which are being turned for good. Why? Why do people who don’t deserve anything good, and don’t deserve to have the bad things turned for good, get so many good things and get all their bad things turned for good? Why? And the answer is: Christ died for us.

The new covenant purchases the favor of God poured out in all those acts of grace. Elect sinners only receive good things because they are bought by the blood of Jesus. Which means that there isn’t anything that happens to us — and I am saying this so that Austin will feel amazed at the cross, because the cross is never farther away than the happy things you are experiencing or the hard things you are experiencing getting turned for good. So, that is my first response to Austin. The glory of the cross is ever present underneath as the foundation for every good you ever experience.

“The new covenant purchases the favor of God poured out in all his acts of grace.”

2) Here’s the second way of coming at this. And this is what I was talking about when I said that yesterday in worship this happened. I was singing and reading the text that were being put up on the screen for us, and a fresh, deep, sweet moving — unusual for a long time — taste of the love of Christ in the cross came over me, and I was so moved and thankful. And the reason that happened was largely because of the words of the hymns.

So, I am going to say to Austin: Make it your habit to sing great old hymns and good modern worship songs that are cross-centered and Bible-saturated, with the gospel of Christ. The one we sang yesterday was: “Rock of ages, cleft for me, let me hide myself in thee. Let the water and the blood from thy wounded side which flowed, be of sin” — and then this phrase — “the double cure: save from wrath and make me pure.” That is really good. It is freshly good. Two cures happen in the cross: wrath removed and me made pure. What a great gift in singing!

“Sing great old hymns and modern worship songs that are cross-centered and Bible-saturated, with the gospel of Christ.”

And then, “Not the labors of my hands can fulfill the law’s commands. Could my zeal no respite know!” In other words, if I could be as zealous as the apostle Paul 24/7, for 80 years long with tears flowing, not one bit of it could atone. “Thou must save and thou alone.” Oh, that is so powerful. “Nothing in my hand I bring. Simply to the cross I cling. Naked come to thee for dress. Helpless look to thee for grace. Foul I to the fountain fly. Wash me, Savior, or I die.” There is something about the plea of that verse. Savior, savior, wash me. I am foul. I am. Dress me. I am naked. I can just feel how shameful that would be and how dirty I am.

That hymn with that tune gave a fresh taste and experience of the love of Christ at the cross. “While I draw this fleeting breath,” — and this one may perhaps move me most of all because I am 70-years-old. “While I draw this fleeting breath, when my eyes shall close in death, when I soar to world’s unknown, see thee on thy judgment throne, Rock of ages, cleft for me, let me hide myself in thee.” I know that at the last fleeting breath, I am not going to plead my good deeds, like: I worked hard for Desiring God. I spoke in a lot of places, blah, blah, blah. No. What paltry, wood, hay, and stubble — that is just not going to be sufficient to make me acceptable at the judgment. One thing will: the Rock of ages was cleft on the cross and I am going to hide.

All of that just to say to Austin: Get a good hymn book. Go online. Find some hymns and sing them. And find a good church where they put together beautiful, Christ-exalting, gospel-saturated songs that heal you every Sunday.

“Meditate on the dozens of passages in the New Testament that talk about the varied purposes for the death of Jesus.”

3) And I have one more thing to say. The third thing I would mention is to meditate on the dozens and dozens of passages in the New Testament that talk about the varied purposes for the death of Jesus. So, I wrote a book about this. It was some years ago, in relation to Mel Gibson’s move, The Passion of the Christ, I wrote a book Fifty Reasons Why Jesus Came to Die. That is the most concerted focus of anything I have ever written on the reasons for the cross to expand and deepen and intensify our love for what he accomplished. And so, if I could be of any help, that book is free for the download at desiringGod.org. Or, you can get it at Amazon.

But whatever you do, Austin, keep on asking God to open your eyes to the glories of the cross. Then there is no substitute for setting your eyes, putting your eyes, on the Word where the cross is most central.