Interview with

Founder & Teacher, Desiring God

Audio Transcript

Michelle has a broken heart. And we see why today in her question. Her family turned away from the faith to follow spiritual mediums. Why? Because God wasn’t fixing their problems fast enough. And that is not just a question for Michelle, who lives in Malaysia. Today on Ask Pastor John: The perils of a quick fix.

“Hello, Pastor John. My name is Michelle. Desiring God has been a great help to me since I became a Christian a few years ago. My family practices Taoism. They turned to it after having experienced some frightening experiences with evil spirits. Some of them have professed to be Christians in the past, but when they didn’t think God helped them fast enough, they gave up on him and gave up on the faith. Now they believe spiritual mediums can give them faster answers. When I was growing up, my family made me participate in these rituals. They told me they would be the path to a happy life. Instead I felt confused, depressed, and desperate to find out for myself what was true and false.

“By God’s grace, he led me to Christ and I trusted in him for my salvation. But my family still refuses to believe in anything that will not give them immediate blessings in this life — health or money or a quick solution to a problem. How do I lovingly challenge this conditional view of faith when I have come to discover that our joy is found in trusting God even when the hard circumstances of life don’t immediately change?”

A Golden Calf over God

Michelle says many in her family were once professing Christians but felt God did not help them during their trials. They now believe spiritual mediums provide faster and more tangible solutions than God does. And she asks, “How do I lovingly address their conditional view of faith, especially when I know true joy comes from trusting God regardless of the circumstances?” That is, regardless of whether there are quick and tangible solutions to our daily problems.

The first thing is to clarify our starting point: We have to start by agreeing with her family at one level. They have decided that God did not help them the way they wanted to be helped, and that now, by means of these spiritual mediums, they’re getting faster results. They’re getting more tangible solutions. That’s simply true. I think that’s where we have to start. This is true. And as long as that’s their criterion for judging truth and value and beauty and meaning, we won’t be able to convince them that God is true and better.

“There is a promised land coming that makes every hardship in the world worth it.”

They’re like the Israelites in that regard, in the wilderness, complaining to Moses that God just does not come through the way they want him to. They’ve gotten tired of the manna, they don’t like the way God provides the water or not, and they want meat — and these things are making them godless (Exodus 16–17) for one main reason: They are not thrilled any longer at the thought that the promised land is just over the horizon.

If they had trusted the Lord, instead of rebelling against him, it would have only been months away, and now it’s going to be 40 years (Numbers 13–14). For them, it’s the here and now that matters — just here and now, quick and tangible. And so, they would rather have a golden calf than the living God, spiritual mediums rather than Jesus (Exodus 32:1–6).

Eternal Cost

So, the first way to address their condition (I think) is, by prayer and reliance on the Spirit, to try to shock them into a sense of how foolish it is to care so much about the small things of this life and ignore the massive things of the life to come. Sometimes, just reading about another person’s experience with eternity can shock us awake to the reality of the life to come and how huge it is.

For example, this is the effect that it has had on me recently to read a biography of Blaise Pascal. Pascal, in the middle of the 1600s, found it incomprehensible that people would never think about the inevitability of death and what might happen after it. He wrote,

As for those who spend their lives without a thought for this final end of life, their negligence in a matter where they themselves, their eternity, their all are at stake fills me more with irritation than pity. It astounds me. It appalls me. It seems quite monstrous to me. (Pensees, 123)

The author of this biography, Graham Tomlin, comments, “The idea that there are people who get terribly upset if they lose their job or are insulted in some fashion and yet never for a moment ponder the question of what happens after death is simply incomprehensible to Pascal” (264).

So, the first thing you might focus on, Michelle, is, “How can I shock my family into seeing that spiritual mediums may improve life on a sinking ship, but they don’t provide any lifeboats for what happens if the ship goes down?” And it is going down.

Jesus promises that those who trust him receive eternal life with God. And the Bible tells us that in God’s presence is fullness of joy and pleasures forevermore (Psalm 16:11). This present life, this momentary affliction, “is [working] for us an eternal weight of glory beyond all comparison” (2 Corinthians 4:17). There is a promised land coming that makes every hardship in the world worth it.

Maybe include in your conversation with your family a very explicit and wonderful promise like Ephesians 2:7: “In the coming ages [God] might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.” The coming ages are endless, and the kindness is inexhaustible if we have Christ.

So, that’s the first thing. Just try to shock them into the incomprehensible foolishness of wanting immediate, tangible results for little problems when the huge problem of eternity is ignored.

Loved by Jesus or Mediums?

Here’s one other approach you might consider: What if you asked your family, “What’s the more beautiful demonstration of love? Is it when a wealthy person brings you nice gifts on your birthday, or is it when somebody you have treated very badly risks his life or even loses it to save yours, even if he never gave you a gift on your birthday?” I wonder if they would answer, “Well, I suppose it’s the person who made the greater sacrifice.” And besides that, they might say, “He saved my life, and my life is more important to me than a few birthday gifts.”

Maybe then you could help them make the connection between what it means to be loved by the spiritual mediums and loved by Jesus. Maybe it will awaken them to see that the spiritual mediums probably aren’t making any sacrifices for them at all. In fact, they may be requiring sacrifices.

“Look at the joy before you, look at life, look at eternity, look at everlasting happiness with God.”

Then maybe they might feel the wonder that Jesus, who was infinitely rich, gave it all up in order to suffer and die in our place to give us forgiveness of sins, to take away all our shame, to give us eternal life (Philippians 2:6–8; 2 Corinthians 8:9; Romans 5:6–11). At least you’ll give them something to think about, because I doubt that they ever made the connection or the comparison between how they are being loved by spiritual mediums and how they are being loved by Christ.

And maybe one aspect of the love of Christ they might be moved by is that he himself lived in the very way he calls us to live when he doesn’t immediately solve every problem we have. Maybe they would be struck by Hebrews 12:2, that “for the joy that was set before him [he] endured the cross, despising the shame, and is seated at the right hand of the throne of God.” He endured the cross, just like he calls us to take up our cross. And he did it just the same way he calls us to do it — namely, look at the joy before you, look at life, look at eternity, look at everlasting happiness with God.

I pray, Michelle — yes, I do — that the Lord will give you wisdom and courage as you try to love your family with these few truths and other ways that he will guide you.